ComplaintsforOrtus Exteriors

• Initial Complaint

  11/18/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We have attached the details of the chain of events as well as email exchanges. In summary, ***** (the business owner) expects us to pay for several rounds of drawings and renderings he had done based on our changes from the initial plans. We feel that we were misled by ***** from the beginning by not providing an initial estimate early on in the project (despite this being part of the announced process), before making any changes, and by not warning us of the impact on the project costs as we were asking for changes. ********'s (the business owner's spouse) email in July stated the fee for the 2D and 3D would be $800, which we (although not having signed any agreement with Ortus Exteriors) are willing to pay. At no point during these 2.5 months were we told how high the costs would be. We do not think that we should have to pay for the revisions since ***** has not met his part of the deal of providing an estimate early on in the discussions. He is also the one who made the calls to update the 3D renderings without telling us that we would have to pay for them if we decided not to move forward and not letting us know how much extra the updates would cost. We also point out that, as stated in one of *****'s emails, because of the waste of time, our project cost will now go higher due to the increase in material prices.

  

  Business response

  01/20/2023

  Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2022/12/02) */ Ortus Inc does not agree with the complaint at all, and we have documented communications and drawing revisions the customer requested and received. The customer was on rev4_b when we submitted the written estimate that was over $400k, due to their increased scope more than doubling the size of the project when quoted verbally of $200k at rev2 presented. See final plans and rendersings of project. Any resonable person would see this is a very big project and would cost in that range. My communication sent 11/9/2022 Well I am not sure what to say. In our recent zoom meeting I stated we are now well over $200k and stated that because I wanted you to know you have added a significant amount of stuff. $200k or below was at rev 1 You added a significant amount of concrete between rev 3 and 4. Between rev 2 and 3 you more than doubled the amount of roof square footage. Between 3 and 4 you added a bar between 1 and 2 we added more appliances, and a beer keg. The biggest cost impact was more than doubling the concrete and paver square footage and roof cover sqft. As far as cost, in 25 years when people do this kind of project it's because they want it. Like buying a plane, a boat, or any other luxury item, there is no "ROI" calculated because it is a luxury item. I had a gentleman in Sachse spend over $300k in his backyard 10 years ago in a house that was Tax Appraised at $325k. So I never know who wants what for whatever reason, I just do what my customers ask me to do with an assumption they have done some precursor homework. Initial REV is attached as well as Rev 4 is in the folder. You had a benchmark of around $200k at rev one, there is a huge delta between that and rev 4. Between rev 1 and rev 4, you all added a kitchen, BAR, appliances, more than doubled the sqft of concrete, added more pavers, almost a three fold increase in roofed sqft, we then moved to attach to the house, added a 3ft wall to the perimeter of the outdoor living area, added privacy landscape, of course added more lights and fans as a result of the increased roof square footage. You went from "shore up" some posts to reconfigure and relocate 140 linear feet of fence. Also we added the tool shed on the side of the house. I do not expect to be reimbursed for my time but I will send over an invoice that reflects the actual cost of the renderings and CAD work. Your project we completely redrew in addition to delivering the drawings and gave you access to download as you said you were serious about getting this done. I anticipated our meeting Thursday would be one to go forward with a phased approach. However, I understand and appreciate the opportunity, this would have been a really cool project. You have a great design you can try and get a better "deal" but the fact is, prices are going up on all materials as we speak. I have already this week received gunite, concrete, and paver price increase notification. I wish you the best and again appreciate the opportunity. Sincerely, ***** ********* Consumer Response /* (3000, 7, 2022/12/05) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) ***** stated in his response that he verbally gave us a quote of $200k at rev2. This is not the truth. Had he done so, we would never have made any other changes and would have ended the conversation there. (no rev 3 and 4) We simply don't have such a budget for this project. We told ***** it doesn't make economic sense to spend $477K on a house in a neighborhood where the average price for a house is $500K. His response was, "I never know who wants what for whatever reason." But again, a professional contractor would check early on to see if the initial estimate was within the customer's budget. This never happened. ***** stated, "Any resonable person would see this is a very big project and would cost in that range." Any professional contractor would have provided on-site or within a few days, in writing, an initial ballpark number. And any reasonable contractor would have warned their customers that their changes would cost an extra $277K. ***** didn't do any of those things. In summary: The only price we were given in writing was the $800 for drawings, which we have said all along we are willing to pay We never received in writing or verbally an initial quote of $200K We were never warned that the changes we were asking for would add an extra $277K to the project Because he misjudged our financial situation and we told him that we do not agree with a project at $477K, he quickly sent us a bill for the drawings, not for $800 as per the original written communication, but for $2100 - another number that was never communicated, in writing or verbally. The extra drawings would never have been necessary if ***** had provided the initial estimate. Note: no additional attachment are provided this time. In our initial claim, we included all the email exchanges and a Word doc with a detailed timeline. Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2022/12/06) */ ******** ***** and ******* ***** both were told about the design fees. Initial design consult was on Aug 16th, Design revision meeting were then on 23rd Sep, Oct 7th, Oct 11th, and Oct 20th. In the initial meeting email communication, Ortus Inc clearly stated in the email, "If you decide to move forward with a design, there is a basic fee of $800." This project was far beyond basic, and we did 4 complete redo's not just revisions, and they had plenty of opportunity to ask and questions they wanted. I personally stated at rev 2 we were well over $200k, and any reasonable person can see by doubling the scope price is going to increase. I have attached the 2D drawings in succession of rev. It is unimaginable that someone would think this project was not going to be more than $200k. I have been doing this for 20 years, and ******** especially was constantly telling me they are ready to get going. Our customer I guess is a much more sophisticated customer, and we have people spending $200-$300 k on projects all the time. Attached is the bill of materials they wanted. ******** ***** and ******* ***** clearly got in over their heads and had no idea what they were doing or what they wanted, or what they could afford and now they don't want to pay their bill. They wanted a bar, kitchen, fireplace, soccer field, outdoor showers, over 5,000 sqft on flatwork and concrete poured, a 200 linear feet 3-4ft tall retaining wall installed and excavation in the front to level the yard. See attached estimate we did for them at their request. Now they don't want to pay, and they have our designs and ideas. Both were clearly told there would be a fee. No reasonable person would expect so much work from a professional organization for free. Consumer Response /* (4200, 11, 2022/12/13) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Initial design consult was on Aug 16 First time a "verbal" estimate was provided: Oct 20 Verbal Estimate provided on Oct 20: "your project is over $200K" - that was Rev3 (not Rev2) Estimate presented on Nov 8: $477K It doesn't matter if we made changes that justify the price difference between rev1 and rev4. What matters is that ***** never mentioned at rev1 what the estimate was and as we were making changes, he never advised us (like any contractor should) on the price impact. In the initial meeting email communication, Ortus Inc clearly stated in the email "At the initial design consultation ***** will give you a rough estimate and timeline for your project. If you decide to move forward with a design, there is a basic fee of $800." ***** never provided a rough estimate. (see above timeline of events) ***** let us go through changes without ever providing guidance on the pricing of our changes. His stand is we are not "sophisticated" enough and "educated" enough to know the price of such project. A customer may wonder if they know the pricing of things what is the point of asking for quotes then. It is interesting to hear the bill is "pricing the materials we wanted "because we never went to the level of discussing materials. We never expected work for free. We always said we agreed to pay the $800 fee for the design, but not the $2100 because had ***** provided the quote within a week after the first meeting, we would have never asked for changes and let him do more drawings. Send us an invoice for $800 and we will pay it right away. (as we always said) Business Response /* (4000, 14, 2022/12/17) */ Customer was well communicated with, anyone with any sort of reason would understand the scope of what they were asking. Typical people who do not want to pay their bills and it is always someone else's fault to for their shortcomings. As you can see, they didn't just increase the design scop a little, it was all more than doubled. Invoice due is the invoice sent. Consumer Response /* (4200, 16, 2022/12/29) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Again, we were not communicated any estimate until October 20 (2 months after the initial meeting) although ***** had committed to give us the estimate one week after the first meeting on August 16. Typical contractor who advertises a price and tries to rip off his customers by charging them 3 times the agreed upon price for the drawings. We were told the design would cost $800, ***** sent an invoice for $2,100. We are still waiting for the updated invoice for $800 and will pay it as soon as we receive it.

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